Imam nawawi gives all those permitted and those who didn't permit. I will take the ones who did not permit because of the reason of adab. Hazrat abu bakr and mimbar is because of adab. Sharia wise yes you can climb the mimbar all the way up and give khutbah. There are so many examples. Anyway, muslims are required not to address the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم like they addresss each other and this in quran. So I would not address with kunya or just name even though some may consider it is ok. Here is what imam nawawi discussing both views الخامس : أنه ينهى عن التكني بأبي القاسم مطلقا ، وينهى عن التسمية بالقاسم لئلا يكنى أبوه بأبي القاسم ، وقد غير مروان بن الحكم اسم ابنه عبد الملك حين بلغه هذا الحديث ، فسماه عبد الملك ، وكان سماه أولا القاسم ، وفعله بعض الأنصار أيضا . السادس : أن التسمية بمحمد ممنوعة مطلقا ، سواء كان له كنية أم لا ، وجاء فيه حديث عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم : ( تسمون أولادكم محمدا ثم تلعنونهم ) وكتب عمر إلى الكوفة : لا تسموا أحدا باسم نبي ، وأمر جماعة بالمدينة بتغيير أسماء أبنائهم محمد ، حتى ذكر له جماعة أن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم أذن لهم في ذلك وسماهم به فتركهم . قال القاضي : والأشبه أن فعل عمر هذا إعظام لاسم النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم لئلا ينتهك الاسم كما سبق في الحديث ( تسمونهم محمدا ثم تلعنونهم ) . وقيل : سبب نهي عمر أنه سمع رجلا يقول لمحمد بن زيد بن الخطاب : فعل الله بك يا محمد ، فدعاه عمر ، فقال : أرى رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يسب بك ، والله لا تدعى محمدا ما بقيت ، وسماه عبد الرحمن
JazakAllah for pointing. During my last visit in blessed rawdah, I did memorise and read Imam Ghazali's salaam (that was reproduced in Shaykh Alawi al-Maliki's book). Ten years is a long time to forget!
no. in fact, that is the arab culture to address someone with respect. the very premise that addressing with kunya is 'disrespectful' is incorrect. as another hadith clearly mentions, this was prohibited in the time of RasulAllah sallALlahu alayhi wa sallam - to avoid confusion. Allah ta'ala knows best.
brother, the citations say that even the name is permissible with harf nidaa, in dua and azkar. the kunya is not at all an issue. arabs use kunyah as respect - however, in the earthly life of RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam, this would be confused with others - hence the kunyah was itself forbidden in his earthly life. some said that the name and kunyah together should be avoided. it is a well-known discussion, but the jumhur opinion is that after sayyiduna RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam left this world, it is permissible to use his kunyah for those with the name muhammad or otherwise. === fath' al-bari citing nawawi: 14/63 ==== when an explicit command to not use his kunyah, was understood by muhaddithin and fuqaha that it was until his departing from this world, then the implied command to address him with his kunya (vide the aayat of surah furqan) is also extrapolated in the same manner. secondly, as mentioned in mataliy masarrat, ulama even permitted calling by the name in azkar or poetry or istighatha - though our position is that it should be replaced by ya RasulAllah. Allah ta'ala knows best.
کیوں نہ قاسم ہو کہ تو ابن ابی القاسم ہے کیوں نہ قادر ہو کہ مختار ہے بابا تیرا ترے بابا کا پھر تیرا کرم ہے یہ منھ ورنہ کسی قابل ہے یا غوث
I see your point completely. My larger point is regarding the poetic license in general. Saying tere with ya is more severe than what you're alluding to.
1. No body has any disagreement with use of kunya or anything endearing in poetry or isthigatha. The point of contention is whether it's respectful to add "ya" with kunya and similar appellations (like "aye Hasnayn ke naana"). One side is saying that it is not so. Mufti Nizamuddin's citation of Durood-e-Taj etc. are not relevant, since in none of these places (and those cited by abu hasan below) kunya is used with harf-e-nida. Similar to AlaHazrat's stance (of avoiding less respectful direct address with nida), both Muhaddith-e-Kabeer and Mufti Akhtar Hussain reiterate the same; except that latter call it "najayiz", not just avoidable. 2. That's not a point of debate, but (to my mind) a logical extension of Mufti Nizamuddin's argument. I just used it as a counterpoint. 3. Again, this is not what I'm driving at. ---- Putting the "najayiz" and "haram" point aside, it is clear that it is less respectful to use "ya" with kunya. If I understand abu hasan's post below, the correct position is in between Mufti Nizamuddin's "is mein koi harz nahin" and Mufti Akhtar's "najayiz". It is avoidable out of extreme sense of respect. Is that right?
No one (except the wahhabiyya) would object to this. Neither side (Mufti Nizamuddin or Mufti Zia ul-Mustafa etc.) have any difference in this regard. I haven't heard any sunni aalim having any objection. I think you have misunderstood the point of difference. Question is whether it is disrespectful to use "Ya Aba Zahra", "Aye Zahra ke baba" and so on. Not that "Aba Zahra" is per se disrespectful (@abu Hasan had posted on why this kunya is not preferable), but should "ya" or "aye" be appended to this?
We (sherkhan and i) are addressing three different issues here 1. Just addressing with kunyah in poetry and istighatha 2. Screaming Ya RasulAllah in the rawdah mubarakah 3. Screaming else where in rallies and all. Also note that Screaming in these kinda rallies is also to undo and negate and thrash the fitnah and aoo al adab of the wahabis All 3 are different and distinct issues.
a brother sent me this fatwa by mufti akhtar husayn (phaps same one linked below). ----- my copy of kanz does not have this tafsir: ==== muhaddith kabeer is frail as is evident from the clip; and it appears that the ulama speaking to him are forcibly trying to get him to agree with their view. ---- mufti nizamuddin is correct in the below fatwa and i have more to add to his fatwa. calling RasulAllah sallALlahu alayhi wa sallam with such names/appellations in his earthly life was forbidden. just as the kunya "abul qasim" was forbidden. but after his departing from this earthly life, the kunya "abul qasim" was allowed. now people conflate two issues - rather three - and mix up things. 1. addressing, calling the habib sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam by his name - sayyiduna muhammad (sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam). everyone is in agreement that it is haram. however, when such a nidaa / invocation is found in duaa - such as the dua of ibn hunayf raDi'Allahu anhu, even here some ulama have suggesting changing it to "ya RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam". this is alahazrat's position as well. others go by the opinion that words taught by the habib must not be changed - and they retain those words and say, the blessed name has barakah. my own practise is that i replace with: 'ya RasulALlah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam' and then add, "sayyiduna muhammad sallALlahu alayhi wa sallam" for barakah. --- 2. treating the invocation with his blessed name: sayyiduna muhammad or sayyiduna ahmad sallALlahu alayhi wa sallam, the same as the kunyah, abu'l qasim or abu'z zahra etc. the evidence presented in both the above cases is the aayah of surah al-furqan, --- 3. citing the aayah of surah al-ahzab 33:40 - they say: one cannot say RasulAllah sallALlahu alayhi wa sallam is the "father of so-and-so". this is not right. the names of RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam ARE abul qasim, abuz zahra, abu't tayyib, abu ibrahim (see dalayil al-khayrat). ----- firstly, one cannot term it as absolutely haraam - because our salaf have used these words calling out RasulAllah SallAllahu alayhi wa sallam. yes, ulama like alahazrat took the extremely cautious approach and avoided it - but others permitted it. hence, it does not become absolutely haram. alahazrat in his risalah tajalli al-yaqin, (see FR v30 p.157) ---- notice that he says: "however, in this place, one should say: ya RasulAllah, ya nabiyAllah.." he uses the word: 'chahiye' the haram that is mentioned is about calling RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam by his name in this earthly life or to seek his attention because it is related to the tafsir of the verse of surah al furqan. not as calling him out in love or for help - as sayyiduna ibn umar did: (the hadith of adab al-mufrad does not have the harf nidaa; also ibn sunni's another narration via ibn abbas also does not have harf nidaa). in ibn al-sunni amal yawm wa'l laylah: ibn sunni: adab al-mufrad: --- in fatawa ridawiyyah, a dhikr of the shattariyah order is mentioned vide shaykh abdul haq muhaddith dihlawi: FR 29/560 ==== numerous instances in dalayil al-khayrat. imam ghazali in the azkar of hajj, describes the way one should say salam and says: ithaf sadah v4p705 it must be noted that this is not "calling" / nidaa - as in calling his name to draw his attention which is haram. rather, it is nidaa as in addressing the master sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam. ==== in the hizb of saturday, in dalayil al-khayrat, the dua is mentioned. mataliy al-masarrat here, in mataliy masarrat: it is permissible to call him in this fashion in dua.. ==== the third point, citing surah al-ahzab is not valid, because nobody disliked referring to RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam as aba'l qasim - though calling him thus in his earthly life was forbidden. but referring to him as zahraa kay baba, or hasanayn kay nana is not at all forbidden. as mufti nizam sb mentioned - it is thus said in salawat tajiyah / durud taj. alahazrat has himself used these appellations in his naats referring to RasulAllah sallAllahu alayhi wa sallam. kyun na qasim ho kay tu ibn abi'l qasim hai. Allah ta'ala knows best.
yes, so my point was to be consistent - what do you say to: ya RasulAllah tere dar ki fazaon ko salam might have missed that part or maybe you or i got confused between addressing and using for oneself. i'm happy to correct my oversight in listening to his video. but the point stands that this is Arab culture and these kunyahs are used by Arab Sufis too no. that's comparing apples to oranges! in fact Shah Turabul Haq sahib marhoom had an audio for just this point that i remember clearly. someone asked him re people in jalsa juloos etc saying "zor se bolo, cheekh ke bolo Ya RAsulAllah" and we're supposed to lower our voices when addressing the Prophet 3alaihis salam. Shah sahib may Allah have mercy on him, clearly said cheekhna chillaana do qism ka hota hai - samne wale ko mukhatib karne ke liye (no doubt this is soo al adab); doosri qism yeh hai ke badshah ke darbari aur ghulam uska naam cheekh ke kahein uski shaan o shaukat bayan karne ke liye so when people should Ya RasulAllah in rallies and gatherings etc., they're doing to praise and honor the Master sal Allahu 3alaihi wa sallam paraphrased in my words (this was in the days of ahlesunnat.net on html!). it's probably recorded and available somewhere
"ya", "aye" are haroof-e-nida which is specifically used to directly call a second person (whether present physically/proximally or able to hear) to gain his attention. When you call someone directly, you need to be mindful of the stature of the person. Did you listen to Mufti Nizamuddin's rationale? He said that as long as the Prophet (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) was alive, it would be impermissible to address him with kunya/agnomen. So far, his ruling is in agreement with that of Muhaddith-e-Kabeer and Mufti Akhtar Hussain. Where Mufti Nizamuddin differs is that he says that since the Prophet (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) "ab nahi rahe", so he can be addressed directly with kunya. While the other Muftis assert that regardless of the corporeality, aadab remains the same. If you extend Mufti Nizamuddin's logic, then you will also have to condone those who are keen to recite salaam loudly and chant nara-e-Risalat in the blessed court (since the rules of adaab during corporeal life don't hold anymore!). On the impermissibility of doing so, brother Noori posted here. @abu Hasan had more detailed post on this issue elsewhere (but I can't locate it). Can you give examples of such use in form of nida?
i won't get in the way of your love and respect for the Prophet 3alaihis salam. but we need to be consistent in our poetry standards or revoke the poetic license of everyone. would anyone talk about his father to someone as "mera baap sachcha hai"? dene wala hai sachcha humara nabi ya RasulAllah tere dar ki fazaon ki salam kaliyan zulfan wala dukhi dillaan da sahara sohna aaya ... and i'm sure you know many more than me you're conflating issues. addressing directly by name is not allowed - when speaking in prose. (many jahil speakers do it in our times) kunyah is a part of Arab culture and a good thing. the very reason in the Prophet's lifetime adopting his kunyah was forbidden, was so that it remains exclusively for him 3alaihis salatu was salam. (according to some scholars it's forbidden for all times) Arab sufiyaa (not contemporaries) too have written manaqib and istighatha using Aba Zahra and Abal Qasim, in fact in the license of poetry or istimdad slogans seeking his 3alaihis salam help against kuffar, people have even used "Ya Muhammad" sal Allahu 3alaihi wa sallam unless there are classical era Sunni Arab scholars speaking against this, or Ala Hazrat himself having a fatwa to that effect - I would say Nizamuddin saab makes more sense. i do respect fully the love and respect of those who say otherwise. Allah knows best
I don't remember any sahabi calling ya abal qasim or even referring with his name Definitely find it inappropriate. Would anyone call his father with his name or kunya ?! Then how about Prophets !!
This issue has been contested and hotly debated lately. I also happened to hear the above yesterday, but I'm not convinced with Mufti Nizamuddin's ruling and explanation. On this issue, I would rather follow the alternative ruling from the ulemas who have decried the use of such address. Muhaddith-e-Kabeer: Mufti Akhtar Hussain Alimi:
