devbandi kazzab in Haram sharif lying, and slandering alahazrat

relevant thread:

https://sunniport.com/index.php?threads/becoming-an-alim-by-self-study.6845/#post-20102

 

From 26:00 onwards the topic of whether or not the speaker is an Alim is discussed in detail

 

due respect to this speaker, he is not a full alim. he spent much time with mufti ghulam muhammad khan sahib nagpuri but is not a fully qualified scholar

 

Diwan e Aaasi ke hawale se molvi najibullah umer devbandi ko jawab

* Hazrat Aasi sahib ke shair ham zimmedar nahi kyunke unho ne halat e wajd m likha hai aur halat e wajd me likhi gayi kalam par hukm nahi lagta aur is par taweel bhi hai
* Rahi bat Fatawa Amjadiya (2:278)** aur Fatawa Sharih Bukhari (1:608) aur Fatawa Huzur Tajus Shariah (1:169) , in teen akabirin ne tawil pesh farmaya hai jis ka mazak us badbakht molvi najib n uraya. Neez huzur tajus shariah رحمة الله عليه ne farmaya is ka zahir kufr hai lekin tawil k sath durust aur sahih hai.

Is tarhan jo hashiya ala fatawa amjadiya me likha hai, woh huzur tajus shariah radhiyallahu anh ke mutabiq hai

** note i could not find it in on vol 2 p. 278

 

The speaker is interpreting the sheyr differently(from around 4:00). Is his interpretation valid?

 

just to make sure we cover all bases, we start from the bottom of the pyramid and go all the way up, lingering at "contradiction" for a short while just to tease the opponent and give them a false sense of being in control (besides, you need to cross this for the next level).

then comes, slam, wham, bam.

 

the last two levels in-fact.

moreover, it appears that Graham did not anticipate the devbandits, for he does not include:

fabricating quotes and/or misattributing distorted quotes to one's opponents and then pretending to refute them - by bringing more fabrications and inexistent evidences from well-known authorities in the field - and, when opportune, even refuting their own claims, published elsewhere - all the while monkeying between the bottom two levels of the said pyramid​

that should make the nadir of the illustration, which is quite apt, given that the dayabina are the asfala-safileen anyways.

 

Deobandis usually tend to fall on the bottom-most level of this hierarchy:

 

ohk.

 

The deobandi looking guy who lied in the video is known as "shaikh Makki Sahab"

 

who?

 

our position is clear.

1. there are lines of poetry which are in accordance with shariah. no one argues about them.

2. there are lines of poetry which appear problematic, but a plausible ta'wil can be made.

2a) if those lines are by ordinary people or ordinary scholars, it is best to avoid them. no takfir will be made because of plausible ta'wil.

2b) if those lines are by senior ulama, known for their caution such as alahazrat, because of the plausible ta'wil, there is no harm in reciting it. whatever i have read from alahazrat's writings, his kalam is unimpeachable. wa lillahi'l hamd. jealous and wretched enemies try to fault him, but have always fallen flat on their faces. dhalika faDlullah. yes.
​

3. there are lines of poetry which are problematic, and only a far-fetched ta'wil can exonerate it.

3a) regardless of who the poet is, avoid such lines.

3b) takfir will not be made - obviously on the side of caution.
​

4. there are lines of poetry which are problematic and no ta'wil can justify it.

4a) if the lines are blasphemous or against tawhid, the poet will be asked to repent. (if he/she is alive)

4b) if the poet is dead, the lines will be deemed kufr; obviously, if we don't know whether the poet repented, or was called to repent, or was made aware of this kufriyat, or any such reason...we will not do takfir.

---​

Allah ta'ala knows best.

 

Most of the comments below the deogandi video note that this is not Alahazrat's poetry. I tried a quick search, and I was shocked to come across another deogandi blog https://barelwipress.wordpress.com/2014/01/05/a-sample-of-barelwi-kufr-takfeer-game/
links don't work though. The blog forges quotes to members from this site on the poetry. Deogandis will be always DeoGandis

Deogandi alim has twisted the story, I found it in Malfuzaat sharif ( pdf can be found on my archive page )
https://archive.org/details/alahazrat

Is.it permissible to eat food of Giydrwi Sharif 101 at the home ot a
launderer (^1) or one who washes clothes?

There is no harm to eat at a launderer' s home. It is a practice held
among the ignorant that his food is unclean. This is baseless and
incorrect. Surely, it is not correct to eat food at the home of a
prostitute and if she buys with her impure earnings, it is Ear am. It
one sells her anything and if she pays from her unlawful earnings,
this is Ear dm. But if she borrows the money and pays you, this is
permissible. Allah knows best.
https://archive.org/download/alahazrat/malfuz-al-sharif-vol-1-to-4-complet-english-.pdf

 

yeah .. against devbandits.. they see shirk/kufr everywhere except in the paeans to their own idols sung in their backyards - that's right. you got my vote.

 

Sometimes the issues raised have both a shayateen element (in this case false attribution) and a more admissible point (that sheyr being ruled anything but kufr)

The latter is open for discussion in my opinion and should be handled with clarity

There is similar sheyr and video [samne khuda baita hai ya aina khuda ka - looking at his peer 'lasani' sarkar] where the accusation of shirk is actually from someone who considers themselves Sunni and a defender of Alahazrat but barelvi scholars do not call it shirk and do seem to be following Alahazrat's usul just like in this instance.
I have also heard sheyr similar to that mentioned in the makki sahib clip in the hall of Eidgah sufis sung/recited in a naat.

In the end the shear number of these instances and how delicately they are balanced between shirk and not kufr, it does make the whole debate a permissible one against us in my opinion.

 

we would like to see the quote the kazzab cited.

 

Fatawa Ridawiyyah 23/750-751






Fatawa Ridawiyyah 24/367; the last relevant portion of a lengthy fatwa.

 

Fatawa Ridawiyyah 23/576





Fatawa Ridawiyyah 23/581-582






Fatawa Ridawiyyah 23/582-583

 

the time will come. in sha'Allah.

---
here are a some fatawa of alahazrat related to income of prostitutes. if someone can convey it to the kazzab in Haram to please forward the reference from which he attributed to alahazrat, we will look into it. wa ila Allahi al-mushtaka.

====


Fatawa Ridawiyyah 19/498





====
Fatawa Ridawiyyah 23/571. the question is lengthy about how an imam went to pray at the funeral of the prostitute. the answer is sufficient.

 

I've said it so many times before. The age of being reactive is over.

If you let these shayatin sit in the driver seat, froth at the mouth with false accusations, and then work on rebuttals, they will take you on a mad roller coaster ride. Plus they're not the only fitnah attacking Islam or Ahlus Sunnah.

Let them say what they want. We do what we have to do aggressively and proactively. Expose the heresies and perversions of their akabireen, or just make the Sunni creed and methodology clear. We take the offense not the defense.

Expose every heresy and every dirty little secret buried in the hikayaat of the akabireen of devband.

Yes, please share.

I know I read that episode some years back but now forgot what it's all about.